Jennie Brooks, host of the Unstoppable Together podcast chats with Booz Allen staff technologist, Elizabeth Dowker, about her experience with a stutter. Tune in as they discuss this nonvisible disability, common mistakes people make when working with someone who has a stutter, and other ways we can create equity for any verbal diversity.
Jennie: Welcome to Booz Allen Hamilton's Unstoppable Together Podcast, a series of stories that unite us and empower each of us to change the world. I'm Jennie Brooks with Booz Allen Hamilton, and I'm passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion. Please join me in conversation with the diverse group of thought leaders to explore what makes them and all of us unstoppable.
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Unstoppable Together Podcast. I'm Jennie Brooks, and today I'm excited to speak with Elizabeth Dowker, Booz Allen Staff Technologist, to talk about her lifelong journey with a stutter.
Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast.
Elizabeth: Thank you so much, Jennie.
Jennie: We're really grateful to be able to speak with you today. Can you first start by sharing a little bit about your journey and your experiences as someone with a stutter?
Elizabeth: Absolutely.
So like most people, my stutter started in childhood. I used intermittent speech pathology throughout my childhood and early teens to mitigate some of those chronic elements. So speech therapy can include multiple part. That's just getting more comfortable with speaking in front of people, working through different kinds of stuttering blocks, and then making sure that you feel comfortable to navigate the world, knowing that you have a stutter. That's been hugely helpful throughout my life and is usually leveraged by people with stutters, so you only need it every once in a while.
And there's three kinds of stutters that I've heard of. There is repetitions, prolongations, and blocks, and they are just as they sound, I mainly have blocks and repetitions. And interestingly enough, one of the hardest parts of having a stutter has been introducing myself. For a very long time, the uh in Elizabeth was really kind of a sticking point, where I'd be so excited to meet someone, but I'd also be a little nervous.
That nervousness kind of bundled together with my stutter, making it even more difficult for me to introduce myself. Slowly over time, I've been able to work through some of the anxiety and some of the fluidity issues, to be able to more confidently and easily introduce myself. That doesn't mean that my stutter's gone away, it just means that it's been easier and more comfortable to navigate the world with a stutter.
And I think it's much more easy to be an adult with a stutter, than it is to be a child. As a child, you don't know of the many kinds of ways that we can exist in the world. As an adult, you can recognize that there's kind of natural diversity, so we can get more into it later. But yeah, it's just-
Jennie: How old were you when in childhood when it first started manifesting, and do you remember the experience of feeling uncomfortable, feeling anxious, or what was that like?
Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. I've never known language without having a stutter. And the interesting thing is that stuttering is a spectrum, so you can only be stuck on certain words. You can have repetitions, prolongations, and blocks, or just one kind.
And so to use an example of one element or one memory that I've had, in grade school, we would have to read out loud. This is a common practice across classrooms in the United States, but for someone with a stutter, I found that very nerve-racking, because I would kind of try to practice my sentence beforehand, try to guess what I was going to say, try to get ready to try to be as fluid as possible. But no matter, even with all the tools in my tool basket, it didn't take away from actually having a stutter.
And so I remember one instance where I was just trying to get through a sentence, and my classmates trying to be helpful, were kind of trying to offer the word, but that wasn't necessarily what I needed. I just needed a little more time. I think there are anxieties often paired with having a stutter, especially as a child, at least for me, because it's trying to fit in while also knowing that you kind of can't.
Jennie: I think that's a really good example because my next question was going to be for you. So how do you prefer to talk about having a stutter with people? Because I think that your classmates' reaction is sort of a natural one for someone's trying to help.
Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely.
Jennie: Help us better understand how you'd like us to think about this.
Elizabeth: Yes, absolutely.
A stutter can be a disability for some people based on the severity of it. But for people who don't have a disability or who it's not disabling their speech, I think it's important to think about a disability as just part of a natural landscape of language fluency.
One in 10 American adults have a stutter, so you probably know someone who has a stutter or even encountered that. And I think that one of the main things that we can think about when having a stutter is just kind of trying to create space for people who have stutters or who aren't as fluid in their speech patterns, not necessarily trying to craft a really stutter. I think the most stuttering friendly environment that you can have is one that's gracious and accepting and that people aren't focusing on the stutter.
And from interacting with other people with stutters, that's kind of the main thing. They just want to be heard and acknowledged without having the emphasis either placed on their stutter or without the very friendly intention that people are trying to co-op their speech and trying to assess them. Because it's not that people who have a stutter can't say that, it's just that it's more of a difficulty for them to easily say that. So that's one way. For some people, it's a non-visible disability, and for other people, it's just kind of part of their day to day operations.
Jennie: And it strikes me that, as we're talking, I might never know, to your point. And so can you help us think about how do you navigate the conversation in the workplace, or how should we all look at this, and how do you navigate that conversation in the workplace?
Elizabeth: That's great. Interestingly enough, I've never had that conversation in the workplace. I have a great team-
Jennie: We're about to have it now.
Elizabeth: I know, who accepts me where I am [inaudible 00:06:07].
Jennie: And thank you for sharing. I really appreciate it.
Elizabeth: I've never felt the need to disclose it. I only disclose it under really kind of odd circumstances. Either I'm exhausted, I'm really stressed, and I just can't get the words out. And so I'll say to someone, "Hey, I have a stutter. This is just part of my [inaudible 00:06:27]." And they're like, "Right. Oh yeah, that's not a problem to me. I was just tracking with what you were saying."
Other times I'll tell friends as a point of connection, "Oh, I have a stutter. This is something you should know about me. And then oftentimes, because I have a covert stutter, one that can't really be noticed, and then only comes out when it kind of flares up. Friends will say, "I never knew that about you," or, "I had no idea that you had a stutter."
So it's really interesting. I experience them for what other people experience, the person who stutters, so most worried about them having a stutter, which is really interesting. But I think in my attempt to create a community at Booz Allen and connect with other people who are verbally diverse, I think one of the biggest things is being able to find spaces of community. And so I've been really grateful for the part of the global disabilities BRG.
Jennie: I love what you said about, often it's the person who's more worried about it than everyone else. Everyone else is like... They're just moving on, not even thinking about it. But we're always so worried about our own self-reflections and those anxieties.
You mentioned people trying to help co-opt the speech. What common mistakes have you observed that would be helpful for us to know to avoid?
Elizabeth: So some of the common mistakes that I've heard then a bit noted by other prominent stuttering podcasters, is that people will either try to guess what someone's trying to say. You start a sentence and you want to say "sandwich", but they guess "hamburger" or something where you're like, "Yeah, thanks for helping me out, but I was going to get there anyway."
And then it's just kind of bad form. And I think most conversations... I don't think it's a general principle that people like being interrupted. Why, even if it's intended very helpfully, it still doesn't affirm that person's ability to actually finish the sentence themselves or to move through that moment of stuttering.
I think some of the unconscious biases that I've heard about is that people who stutter aren't prepared for meetings, presentations for client-facing work, and this isn't the case. I think that by incorporating an understanding that verbally diverse people exist in the workplace and are excellent, that the focus should be more on actually the quality of their work, rather than the fluidity with which they're able to present it.
And I think that being able for them to opt in or out of meetings, or presenting at meetings without taking away that opportunity is a way that staff and managers could both affirm someone, a verbally diverse person's presence within in the workspace and their opportunity to contribute without taking away any opportunities inadvertently.
Jennie: We shouldn't assume that just because someone has a stutter, or someone is dyslexic, or someone has another disability, that they can't be the one giving the presentation or reading from the teleprompter or whatever the case might be, to have a conversation around opting in or opting out, if you will.
Elizabeth: Absolutely.
Jennie: Okay. You mentioned the speech therapy earlier on in your childhood.
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Jennie: Is that something that's ongoing work that you continue to do? Or there strategies that then you employ throughout your daily life as needed?
Elizabeth: So some of the skills I've gained through speech therapy are actually some of the things I leverage when I present at conferences. So it's made me a really good public speaker, which I think is really interesting considering the fact that I'm sometimes so terrified to have a casual conversation with someone. It's things like breath work, making sure you take a breath before you start a sentence, giving yourself enough air and time acknowledging that this one sees happen. Not trying to put too much pressure on yourself. And so making sure that you can craft a presentation, a speech, as well as you can, but it doesn't have to be perfect in order for it to be very good. And also kind of working through the problem spots. So recognizing or taking away some of the fear that saying my name used to have, so now I can, I'm just calling the doctor all the time saying, "Hey, my name is Elizabeth Dowker." Before, I would do anything to avoid that.
But yes, speech therapy is something that I've leveraged throughout my life, and usually, like many other types of therapies, it is as needed. So you can do it for long stretches of time, like two, three months. You focus on a couple skill sets that you need. And at that developmental stage that's very helpful for children and preteens.
I've also pursued it in my adult life just to kind of hone my edge. There are professionals who support individuals with stutterers specifically for workplace situations. So that's been super interesting to get to know and work with people who are really engaged in that space, or consider opportunities to do so.
Jennie: I'm curious about two things. One is, what advice might you have for parents who are listening? Maybe they have a young child that they're identifying who has a stutter, and if there's anything notable from your own experience from a parent's perspective. We do have people who listen to the podcast, who come to us with questions, not necessarily about themselves, but about their children.
And then secondarily, for anyone who's a manager or a colleague of someone who has a stutter, what advice or guidance would you give them to just keep in mind?
Elizabeth: So if you're noticing dysfluencies in your child, I've only been on the reciprocating end of this or the receiving end, but I think you can have an assessment with a speech pathologist who specializes in child speech pathology to assess where your child is and if, developmentally, they need that support.
And then with early intervention, you can really knock out a lot of stutters. That's why I think 80% of stutters, stuttering people in the world are children, because it can actually kind of naturally go away as someone developmentally matures. There's no root cause of stuttering. Scientists are still trying to figure this out. It's probably a neurological thing, but...
Jennie: Oh, interesting.
Elizabeth: Yeah, it's really interesting to look into some of the research. They don't know. There's just kind of... But there are a couple of threads where it's a little bit of nature, it's a little bit nurtured. But I think definitely an emphasis on getting that support early, just like with many other things for children, can really make a long, long term impact. And then they grow out of it.
Generally, I've seen that most health insurance providers do offer some or all support for speech language pathology for children, and possibly for adults. So that's been really encouraging to see.
Jennie: And then what advice would you have for someone who's a manager of a colleague with, of someone who has a stutter?
Elizabeth: Yeah, I would say let them bring it up. Don't try to bring it up first. I'm very grateful that all of my leadership has never said, "You have a stutter. What's going on with that?" They've just allowed me to perform well and supported me in any way that I've needed it. And I think that that's kind of having a two-way street and space of respect allows for a colleague to come to a manager with concerns of saying, "Hey, I'm really concerned about this, my performance. Are you concerned about my fluidity?" And a manager say, "No, that's not something I'm worried about," or, "Hey, have you connected with this community to offer you just any kind of support that you need?"
I think, as I've mentioned before, just giving space in meetings for people with dysfluencies, whether that's virtual or in person, and not judging someone's performance strictly off of their fluidity. Something that's helpful.
Jennie: If I'm listening too, I'm thinking on a scale of one to 10, 10 being super concerning acute in terms of disruption, this is very low on the scale of your daily life. How much are you really concerned about this in terms of your day to day life?
Elizabeth: So when I joined Booz Allen and I was brand new, fresh out of college, it was probably more of a six or a seven. I was really concerned with establishing myself well, forming new connections, tons of coffee chats, things like that. Really trying to develop the networks. It was heavy time of introductions and in front of leadership a little bit more than I was if I was more of an employee with a more developed career like I am.
So now it's a two. I never worry about it. But I also, again, kind have a coverage stutter. If I was stuttering more frequently, then I think it'd be a higher concern. But just with other unseen disabilities, it can kind of flare, and that's when it becomes more of concern.
Jennie: And just to punctuate, when you arrived at Booz Allen in this new setting, new team, new company, for you, it manifested in the point of having to introduce yourself.
Elizabeth: Exactly.
Jennie: Which sounds like it happens for many people that way. It's that moment of the introduction.
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Jennie: Okay.
Elizabeth: Yeah, it's the concern about being perceived well, while knowing that you have this hidden thing that may or may not come out that could negatively and has routinely been seen in a negative way. I'm glad there's been a lot of... There's a language of victory over a stutter, like The King's Speech, like, "Oh, he overcame his stutter," like, "Oh, this is great," or a space of mocking, like porky pig stutters, and isn't that so funny?
But it's never a space of affirmation of like, "Oh, they stutter, and they've been giving tools to do well, and we're going to give them space to stutter, and we're going to be okay with them stuttering." And that's a natural thing. It's kind of like, at least in what I've seen in the representation of media, it's kind of like perfect or nothing.
Jennie: That's very insightful. Yes.
Elizabeth, at the end of every podcast, we give our guests some free space to share their final thoughts with our audience. What would you like to share with those listening today?
Elizabeth: I think some key takeaways that I'd like to share is that you probably know someone with a stutter, whether it's covert or overt. So it's not something that you may not... You will see and interact with someone with a stutter throughout your lifetime.
I would recommend definitely avoid commenting on or trying to complete what someone with a stutter is saying. They're going to get there, they just need a little bit more time. I would, yeah. And so that's kind of the main way of offering support, especially if they don't disclose their stutter to you.
And then one thing that I've just been reflecting on is that we can foster, collective, and ingenuity and creativity when we include grace and flexibility in how we support others.
Jennie: I love that. Thank you, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth: Absolutely.
Jennie: Thanks for listening. Visit careers.boozallen.com to learn how you can be unstoppable with Booz Allen. Be the future. Work with us. The world can't wait.