Jennie Brooks, host of the Unstoppable Together podcast, sits down with members of the Booz Allen African American Network: Ebony Thomas, Howard Foard, and Taalib al'Salaam, for a conversation about Juneteenth. They discuss the meaning of the holiday, examine the distinction between celebrating it and observing it, and reflect on how far we’ve come and how far we still have to go. *Since originally recording this episode in June 2021, the Booz Allen holiday schedule now includes Juneteenth. You can read more about these changes in the Unstoppable Together Magazine: https://tinyurl.com/2p8ns59w
Jennie Brooks:
Welcome to Booz Allen Hamilton's Unstoppable Together podcast, a series of stories that unite us and empower each of us to change the world. I'm Jennie Brooks with Booz Allen Hamilton, and I'm passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion. Please join me in conversation with the diverse group of thought leaders to explore what makes them and all of us unstoppable. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Unstoppable Together podcast. I'm Jennie Brooks, and I'm excited today to bring you the voices of different Booz Allen employees to share with us what Juneteenth means to them. Please join me in welcoming to the podcast, Ebony Thomas, Howard Foard, and Taalib al'Salaam. Everyone, welcome.
Ebony Thomas:
Thank you, Jenny.
Taalib al'Salaa...:
Oh, hi.
Howard Foard:
Thanks for having us.
Jennie Brooks:
It's great to have you all here. Juneteenth is an important holiday that received more claim and spotlight last year as cultural awareness and race relations grew in our country to become a national conversation. Can we start by sharing your thoughts on what Juneteenth means to you? Ebony, why don't you start us off?
Ebony Thomas:
Absolutely. For me, it's an opportunity to celebrate freedom. And I mean, that's really what Juneteenth is about. It's about freedom. I'm sure many know the history, but there's always so much more to learn, but essentially it marks the time at which the last set of slaves found out about the emancipation. And so that's significant. It shows that equality was something that was not widespread. It's something that we are still striving to obtain today, but it's an opportunity for us to reflect on the fact that although we've come very far, we've still got a really, really long way to go. And I think that's the significance of Juneteenth. It soes show our progress, but it also shows that we're still striving toward more.
Jennie Brooks:
Taalib, what does it mean for you?
Taalib al'Salaa...:
So Juneteenth to me means a continued journey. Mere fact that it took such a long time between when emancipation was announced in DC to get to the point where it could reach the people in Texas, it's just that event is just remarkable in and of itself. But even then, full equality has been over a 150-year journey, right? So when I look at Juneteenth, I look at that that this is going to be a continual journey toward full equality, even as we face some of the issues that we face today.
Jennie Brooks:
So given where we are today, with some of what you just cited becoming increasingly acute as we look across our nation, what does that bring to bear as we together come into Juneteenth this year, Howard?
Howard Foard:
Yeah, I see a distinction between celebrating Juneteenth versus observing Juneteenth. My neighbor last year, a player of the Washington football team, right, and he probably set off at least $25,000 worth of fireworks and just blew it up. Amazing display, half the neighborhood was concerned about their dogs being scared, and the other half is like, "Hey, don't worry about it. Juneteenth, enjoy the firework show." And so I can be there. I can take in that moment. But on a deeper level, it's hard for me to celebrate because, really, it's having to acknowledge that my ancestors were enslaved. And so I should be happy that they were freed, that this injustice was brought to an end? And it wasn't even brought to an end, as Taalib talked about, and all the racialized systems that we've sees since.
So for me, it's a day of observance where I think we have to take where we stand, where we're going. Here's a conversation that occurs inside of the Black community. And I think there's also a conversation that happens between the Black community and the rest of America. And I think there needs to be a conversation that happens in White America about how to reconcile these things and not trying to look past it all the time. I think whenever the conversation around reparations comes up, I instantly feel like five people are asking for a handout, or we're told that we're asking for a handout. And it's like, no, there was a promise to our ancestors that there would get 40 acres and a mule to start their free life. And that promise wasn't maintained, and subsequent promises haven't maintained. But what has maintained are systems of oppression that have kept people down. So I think I get frustrated, and it's hard for me to say, "I want to celebrate Juneteenth." Again, I think it's important that we notice and we observe it and people use it as a means to address these conversations that need to happen.
Jennie Brooks:
Ebony, so the events of the past year in this country, how do they change how you're thinking about or approaching Juneteenth this year, if at all?
Ebony Thomas:
I don't know that I would necessarily say that anything is different, but there are a lot of events that have happened over the past year that feed into Juneteenth and the fact that we are still fighting for that equality. One of the things that I'll point to is the insurrection on January 6th. The conversation in most, every Black household was the fact that if we were on the steps of the Capitol building, it would've been a very, very different scene. That is something that we know, and that's upsetting to us. It is frustrating to know that we are not treated the same, that we don't get the same respect, and it's hurtful. Another thing that I would point to is just recently with the trial, I remember sitting on my couch with bated breath waiting for the verdict and what that would mean for us as a whole.
I'm so glad that it went in the direction that it did and that justice was served. But how many times have we seen it where that wasn't the case? People say, "Oh, we've made it. It's so great that we finally..." No, there are so many other cases out there where that hasn't been the case. So the work is not done to me. And I think this goes back to what Howard was saying. It's the difference between the celebration of Juneteenth or the observance of Juneteenth. It's an opportunity to look and see that, although, and this is kind of what I alluded to earlier, we've come a long way, we cannot let that fact go, but we're not there yet. And there's still a lot to be done. So I think the observance of it is essentially important and just understanding the struggles that have been fought, but the fact that we're still making strides.
Jennie Brooks:
If you were to have conversations with some of our colleagues or people across your community, or, "Hey, look, I'm here to learn or just learn more about it." What would you offer to them as sort of things that they should consider going into the Juneteenth celebrations and observations?
Ebony Thomas:
Yes. So shameless plug as the Chair of the African American Network, last year, we actually put together a resource. It's called We Are Not Okay, and it's got books, articles, influencers to follow on the internet, movies to watch, documentaries to watch, all these different things to meet you where you are. If you've got 30 minutes to do some digging, check this out. If you've got a week or a month and you want to explore a little deeper, these are some resources that you can use. I think that that's a really good starting point. There's so much information out there people can access. Just have conversation. I think beginning the conversation and talking to people to understand more is always a great place.
Jennie Brooks:
Great. And so are we planning the same for the firm this year?
Ebony Thomas:
In terms of acknowledgement and observance of Juneteenth? Indeed, we are. We are in the stages of planning right now. I guess I can leak some of the plans that we have. We're going to do a cooking demonstration. It really talks about the importance of food as it pertains to Juneteenth and the Black culture in general. So, really looking forward to that, we're going to have a local chef who's going to come and prepare a meal and talk about the history of Juneteenth and how food plays into that. And then we're going to have a guest speaker on the Friday. Last year was our inaugural Juneteenth event, and so this will be the second annual. But for that, we are still thinking through the theme, but the hope is that it will have some element of fun. So it's a virtual event, of course, because of the state of the country with the pandemic, but we're still going to try to make it a fun event. And we're also going to have somewhat of a historian speak and talk about the importance of Juneteenth and essentially what it means for us and for our country.
Jennie Brooks:
Awesome.
Ebony Thomas:
So looking forward to that, and I do hope that everyone will join.
Jennie Brooks:
That's great. Thank you. Howard, can you share with us a little bit about, what is the difference in where you live or where you come from in the country and how that sort of informs our awareness around Juneteenth? What did that look like?
Howard Foard:
Sure. And I think I'm going to try to also talk about ethnicity as I try to talk through this. So yeah, I think most people in the US, when they see a Black person, they see Black person and then they equate that to African American, right? And some people just get confused about the usage, which is preferred, so on and so on. And I will not attempt to explain on behalf of all Black Americans, but I'm going to give my view and my understanding of this through my own life experience. Racially, you have Black people who have brown or black colored skin, but that is not endemic of where they're from, right? So take myself and my family. My father is an African American. His family was born and raised here in the United States. You can draw a straight line in his family to slaves.
My mother is from The Bahamas, which is also referred to as the West Indies or part of the diaspora, right? So Black people have all these different ethnicities that make us up, and then we come to the table with these different experiences. And inside of the Black community, those experiences are acknowledged and seen, but they can go unnoticed outside of our community. And so the same thing occurs when you think about the dispersion of Black Americans in this country. You have some Black Americans who they have been naturalized, but they're from the continent of Africa and different nations spread out around Africa, and they have no or little to no connection to Juneteenth. It doesn't really [inaudible 00:10:45] for them. You have people like my mother who like, okay, I get it, but I don't really get it. And then you have people who grew up in the deep, deep south, right, where the echoes of slavery are much more prevalent, where celebrating, and I'm using the term celebrating, things like Juneteenth is much more critical because it gives them a source of power and a sense of freedom, whereas growing up in Northern Virginia or Washington DC area, that those echoes aren't as in-your-face and the need to park and back to those moments like Juneteenth are less critical.
There was this point during Jim Crow segregation of south, where you saw Black people migrate from the deep south to places like Michigan and Chicago and New York City and to LA. And we call that the great migration. And I think that's where you get more of that dispersion of people who can draw that heritage back to the deep south. And therefore they celebrate things like Juneteenth. So for me, when I got to college, and I went to UVA, and UVA, I like to say, was one of those schools where you could be a predominantly White institution, but I have a HBCU experience because you actually had a strong contingent of Black students from all over the country. And I was exposed to all these different Black American ethnic experiences that really kind of educated me and let me understand, even for myself, that as Black people, we're not a [inaudible 00:12:32]. See if you ask Black people, "[inaudible 00:12:35] you call it African American Network or a Black Network or the Diasporic Network," you'll get lot of different answers because we identify [inaudible 00:12:43].
Jennie Brooks:
Let's talk also about in such a challenging year with just significant upheaval and pain and uncertainty, let's talk a little bit about inspiring examples around us. Do each of you have some notables of Black excellence, Black perseverance that you'd like to share with those listening as we look to the celebration of Juneteenth. Ebony, let's start with you.
Ebony Thomas:
Yeah. The only thing that I would point to, it's a recent book that was released called On Juneteenth by Annette Gordon-Reed. That would definitely be a great place to start as you think about the reflection, the celebration. There are so many. It's funny, I was talking with my mom this morning even about the questions. And I mean, we could probably run a long, long list of people who have done significant things this year, last year, the past decade, the past [inaudible 00:13:44], fun and lighthearted things like Beyonce breaking the record for Grammy's, larger things like Kamala Harris becoming VP, Stacey Abrams breaking ceilings, Amanda Gorman, the poet that spoke during inauguration. So many great things that have happened.
Jennie Brooks:
And so many women, Ebony. Yes.
Ebony Thomas:
So many women. Oh, we've got some men too, Raphael Warnock becoming the Senator in Georgia, just so many great things that have happened. Another woman, Phylicia Rashad, who played Clair Huxtable and is everybody's play mom, is just named the Dean of the Fine Arts Department at Howard University. Just so many great things that are happening, and so there is a lot to celebrate when it comes to our culture, our people. And I do hope that they're recognized.
Jennie Brooks:
We will certainly celebrate them as we observe on Juneteenth and can go look up all of their remarkable stories. At the end of every podcast, we leave some free space for our guests to leave final thoughts with those listening. Ebony, what would you like to share with our audience today?
Ebony Thomas:
I am excited that Booz Allen has committed to acknowledging Juneteenth and making it part of our fabric and that it continues to feed into the six points, the six-point agenda that Horacio laid out last year. I think it's sparked a lot of important conversations. It's sparked a lot of important actions, and just excited to see where we will continue to go.
Jennie Brooks:
Howard?
Howard Foard:
Yeah, like Ebony, I am heartened by what I like to call a renaissance that is occurring in the firm around racial and social equity. I think in my own journey, I have gone from a place of feeling, fearful is probably not the right word, but not feeling totally empowered to speak openly about racial issues in the firm, to a place where I feel my colleagues, people like you who created these types of spaces, have made it safe for me to feel, to talk openly about these issues. And I think, one, it makes me love the firm more, make me feel like people are authentic in their sincerity and wanting to address these issues. I love seeing Horacio and our leaders stand behind the words that they put out earlier this summer, this past summer. And I just want to see them do more of that.
I think we are at a [inaudible 00:16:21] point where people are starting to believe that Booz Allen is going to be a leader on racial and social equity issues. And so when people are starting to believe, you have to follow through. My message to the firm is just to continue doing that, continue being the leader that Booz Allen has always been. Let's live through our values, ferocious integrity and just being all out and courageous, unhitching courage, and standing up for what's right and creating the space for all of our staff to truly bring their whole selves to work. We know studies show that when employees do that, when firms hire diverse workforces, they do better. They are able to generate more revenue. They are able to connect with broader spectrums of clients. They just grow faster, and they're stronger for it. So I challenge the firm to just continue to lean forward, be innovative, be bold.
Jennie Brooks:
Thanks, Howard. Taalib, you've got last words.
Taalib al'Salaa...:
Awesome. So I'm just going to go right back through the history of Booz Allen, and I'm just going to go right to Edwind Booz's words, right? He said, "Start with a character, intelligence, and industry. Daily, think right, act right, eat right, sleep right, work right, and play right. Know your own blind spots. Always be willing to listen and help worthy young people require character, intelligence, and hard work as the foundation in selecting people. Pick the cream of the crop for your partners. And finally, fear not the future nor people." That's why I think this effort is just natural for us as a company. It's part of our pedigree, right? I want to make sure that we don't lose that because funny enough, what's old is new, right?
Jennie Brooks:
That's right. Words that endure.
Taalib al'Salaa...:
[inaudible 00:18:29], right? And all of those words that Edwin Booz said, I mean, I don't know what his racial consciousness was a hundred years ago, but it's definitely applicable today. And if you have these particular values, you're going to naturally end up with a diverse workforce. You just got to actively go and move out of your mind that we've got to seek them, or we've got to find them or hunt for them. They're right in front of you. Just open your eyes. Just ask somebody. Ask somebody who looks like them, say, "Hey, you want to go down to Morehouse and get..." They're there. They're there, smart people, wonderful people who will come in and work hard if given the chance. So I just say, maybe we just need to just go back to his words and just keep it in practice.
Jennie Brooks:
Couldn't agree more. Thank you all. Thanks for listening. Visit careers.boozallen.com to learn how you can be unstoppable with Booz Allen. Be the future. Work with us. The world can't wait.