Jennie Brooks, host of the Unstoppable Together podcast chats with director of diversity talent acquisition at Booz Allen, Tom Downs. Learn about the challenge of transitioning from the military to the corporate workforce, how Booz Allen considers the entire military family in our recruiting and support process, and what each of us can do to make the transition smoother for everyone. One of Booz Allen's long-standing partners in this journey is the Hiring Our Heroes organization. You can learn more about Hiring Our Heroes at hiringourheroes.org and Booz Allen's Military Talent community at careers.boozallen.com/talent/military.
Jennie Brooks:
Welcome to Booz Allen Hamilton's Unstoppable Together podcast, a series of stories that unite us and empower each of us to change the world. I'm Jennie Brooks with Booz Allen Hamilton and I'm passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion. Please join me in conversation with the diverse group of thought leaders to explore what makes them and all of us unstoppable.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Unstoppable Together Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Brooks, and today I'm excited to be joined by Tom Downs, a proud military veteran with 21 years service, and Booz Allen's director of diversity talent acquisition. Tom, welcome to the podcast.
Tom Downs:
Awesome. Thank you, Jennie. Happy to be here.
Jennie Brooks:
Thanks for being here. Tom, we often call Booz Allen a natural home for veterans. You've obviously found a professional home here as a veteran. For those listening, can you share with us a little bit about who Booz Allen is, particularly for veterans and those transitioning from their military service?
Tom Downs:
Sure, yeah. Obviously,we're a big defense contractor. We also kind of key ourselves as a technology company and I selfishly like to also say as a vet, the destination of choice for transitioning veterans and spouses and also caregivers. We have a huge footprint across the United States and we also have a footprint overseas or OCONUS, so great opportunities for folks who want to transition locally and/or nationally or globally for that matter in regards to the next steps in their career post-military service. I think it's just another great way that we're elongating that relationship to the military community is by way of serving differently, in corporate gray, if you will, in regards to transitioning from the military into corporate America.
Jennie Brooks:
You mentioned caregivers. I'm sort of struck by that specifically, particularly as we pull through the pandemic and I think a lot of people have found themselves in added caregiving situations. Why did you mention caregivers?
Tom Downs:
Big part of the, it's often overlooked. The Dole Foundation has a tagline for this called The Hidden Heroes, we're also a partner of theirs as well, and it's just a vastly, sadly, honestly overlooked profile within the military community because so many veterans transition from the service with either visible or invisible injuries as they say, that require immediate long-term if not lifetime care post-military service. A lot of that creates obviously some additional requirements that were not previously there for their respective spouses or significant others. That's the term caregivers. It's just a huge piece of making sure that once that veteran transitions out and they need that follow up treatment or care, it creates a strain and it's an opportunity for us to make sure they're not overlooked and they're not hidden. We want to make sure that we encompass the entire military family when we're trying to outreach, engage, and of course hire talent. They are part of our outreach and engagement specifically to make sure we're not overlooking them.
Jennie Brooks:
Yes. I think also living our purpose and values, part of that is sharing our stories and having the courage to be forthright about our stories and where we are and to find a place with people who will meet you where you are and listen and embrace the diversity of those experiences. We've always proudly shared that Booz Allen's workforce is 30% military or military affiliated. With a third of our team having military exposure experience, what would you want those who are now making the transition to know and what would you want the other two thirds of the workforce to know about those who are transitioning from the military?
Tom Downs:
Yeah, I think for the ones that are starting their journey as far as hanging up the uniforms, so to speak, in regards to turning the page on their career and moving on to the next thing, I think it's start soon, start early, start now. As I transitioned out just about 10 years ago, which is obviously a decade plus, it seems like eternity, but I think I took it to heart where the transition assistance program, or TAP as it's called, as required for every service member and spouse can attend as well, to do that as they're transitioning out of the military. You can do that from about one year out, give or take. I went three times. It's just a matter of you can do it once, you can do it as many times as you want, but I wanted to make sure I had this right.
I'm an army veteran and no different than doing what's called a sand table exercise before you do you some kind of a movement or activity, I wanted to make sure I was fully prepared for that transition in corporate America, be it resume, to be dress for success, be it networking, talking to employers. Start early now and for my team specifically in the military talent acquisition space, our goal is to get left of transition, but I want to talk to you when you're 12, 18 months out from making that decision and making that pivot because we can talk to you, we can guide you, we can mentor you, we can have those coaching conversations and inform you about what's next here and if it's not here, where else can we help you get a spot? We're a big advocate for what I've keyed as a help or hire.
There's 200,000 vets getting out every year. We can't hire every one of them, be it because of skillset matching and/or geo locations where you want to live, we may not have a space. But if I can help you get to that next opportunity or my team can, we'll network with you, we'll have coaching conversations with you, and we'll also network you within our professional networks of other recruiters at other companies doing the same great effort. Just once again, start early, start now, get far left the transition, don't wait till the last minute.
For the two thirds that are also our teammates that are equally as important and valued here or at any other company is learn about the veteran community. You don't have to served to be an ally or a champion for or of. That's part of us, not all of us and it's what helped make us to who we are today, and I'd be a fool to say that it didn't 'cause it did, be it personally, professionally, leadership, et cetera. It was all shaped via the military. But that is not what I start with in a conversation. That's probably what I end with as far as an introduction kind of thing if I even say it. I want you to value me for my skills, traits, and abilities and what I can provide to the organization and the team, learn more about me as a person, and that's just a complimentary piece. No more than you going to university A and I went to university B. It's just part of what makes us a person.
Jennie Brooks:
Mm-hmm. Are there one or two key themes or trends that you hear from transitioning military that are their concerns as they look to make the transition? Are there a couple things that typically stand out?
Tom Downs:
I think one big one is trying to understand what their skillsets and experiences are from the military and how that transitions into corporate America. That's probably one of the biggest conversation topics that we have, be it at in-person events, virtual events, or we also host a quarterly info session as well that's free for all to join, but, "I have this skillset, where am I a match at your company?" I think just taking the time to one, have the conversations with the recruiters that are aligned to the military community 'cause they'll totally coach you through that process.
But secondly is doing additional homework on their front side for you. A better conversation would be, "Hey, I've researched these three or four or five different jobs at your organization. I'm a good match because of A, B, C, and D. What do you think off of my skillset and their qualifications for the job, which one of these would be the best match for me?" That's going to be a faster solution set for conversation and ending versus, "Hey, I've got this experience. Where would I be a good match?" That's you're going into more of a life coaching conversation versus, "Let's get to a next step in our career." So I'd say that is one.
Then secondly is understanding compensation expectations. From the military, you get your housing allowance, you get your clothing allowance, you get your base pay, you might have specialty pays for jump or special forces or recruiting duty or what have you. How's that correlate into corporate America and know what your value is to the organization and to any organization for that matter. You can look on different websites, like glassdoor.com is a big one where you can look at what your skillsets are, the job you're applying for and what that equates to for dollars. But I think part of that also is understanding that don't get wed to a dollar, get wed to the opportunity. With that, it's what's the total compensation package is $1,000 or $2,000 going to keep me from taking that job? Absolutely not. That's going to be probably $2 a month in your paycheck. Look at the big picture of what is the total compensation packaging? What's the base pay obviously, is there a sign-on bonus? Is there a relocation paid? Is there a 401K match? Is there stock options? Do you got to pay for parking? Is there employee match for flex payment account? All those different things are the total compensation package and of course the annual bonus process. Take all it into consideration before you come forward with a dollar amount.
But last I'd say don't get wed to a set dollar amount because that's not going to typically end well. Just get wet to a range and have more of a productive conversation.
Jennie Brooks:
Great. All right. An important part of our work here is our partnership with Hiring our Heroes. Can you tell us a little bit about Hiring our Heroes and our partnership with them?
Tom Downs:
Absolutely. Yeah. Just a phenomenal partner. National impact, obviously not global impact 'cause they do events overseas as well, but as part of the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation's initiative of Hiring our Heroes at the program, we've been a longstanding partner of theirs for just shy or just at 10 years right now.
Jennie Brooks:
Wow.
Tom Downs:
Huge opportunity for us to engage differently. Of course we can go to any job fair with other vendors, et cetera, but I think Hiring our Heroes has really gotten the secret recipe figured out and be it in-person events, virtual events, be it the DOD skill bridge program or fellowship program they call it, where you can transition from the military into corporate America as a vet or a spouse for up to 12 weeks and kind of do a pseudo internship with a company. They've got that figured out. They do a phenomenal opportunity for, once again, the whole community, the whole military family, be it vet spouses and, of course, those caregivers again. They do it all. It's not just singularly focused on academy grads or what have you. It's all the military, all ranks, all levels to make sure that we are indeed doing what we can to place these transitioning service members that are a huge value add to our workforce and spouses into the workforce.
Jennie Brooks:
Awesome. I'd be remiss if I didn't take a moment to brag. Booz Allen recently won an award from Hiring our Heroes. We received the Wounded Veteran and Military Caregiving Employment Award for demonstrated leadership in addressing the unique employment challenges faced by wounded warriors and military caregivers and providing pathways to economic stability. Tell us a little bit about this award.
Tom Downs:
Yeah, that was a huge accomplishment.
Jennie Brooks:
Awesome.
Tom Downs:
Yeah, huge, huge accomplishment. I actually little choked up when we went to get that award that night. That was hugely impactful just personally and professionally. I think it's just another testament to a benchmark of our success to be recognized, one of course by the US Chamber of Commerce and of course Hiring our Heroes, but also against our peer set. That's just a significant recognition for us to receive and in regards to what we're doing in this space specifically for, once again, this often overlooked community unfortunately, but we're doing our part specifically to make sure that it's the whole community, whole military family, not just a part of it. I think so many of the transitioning veterans are going through some extremely challenging medical things post-military service that, once again, could be short term or long term and that creates some additional stresses for their family. We're making sure that the recruiting process is fantastic once you get here, but then we move on to the next recruiting event and you're newly hired.
But what we specifically need to make sure you're informed of as that new hire is we have five business resource groups to make sure that that integration, onboarding, and successful career growth happens here. One of which, of course, is the military BRG but we also have a dis disabilities BRG to make sure that those caregiver challenges and also just individual challenges you might have are addressed. They advocate for us changing our benefits, they advocate for flexible work arrangements, they advocate for remote work. You name it, these BRGs or business resource groups satisfy and help us solve for that, which is critical to retention. I think if we didn't have that, we'd probably be very challenged to make sure that it was a seamless process for many when they come across the finish line and badge in on day one and they're a critical part of that, which once again, ties in to your overall us receiving this recognition is that we make sure that that courtship, if you will, continues post the recruiting process for your entire career here.
Jennie Brooks:
I love that. I'm so touched by the award and the recognition of specifically this category of wounded veterans and the military caregiving employment. You mentioned the BRGs and some of the supports and flex work. We've had a number of conversations in our work together around military spouses. Can you just speak a little bit to what the journey looks like for military spouses and also some of those specific supports that firms like Booz Allen can offer them because they have a very distinct journey, don't they?
Tom Downs:
Correct, and challenges obviously.
Jennie Brooks:
Yes.
Tom Downs:
I reflect back on my career and with my wife at the different moves and studying her career, and this is just extremely challenging. But even while you're in or while we're all out together, transitioning into corporate America is one thing that we do that I think is very unique is that typically when you go through the application process, all companies ask for how you self-identify, be it a veteran, person of color, et cetera. But we also ask about military spouse affiliation. We ask military spouses to self-identify during the application process, not as an afterthought, as a forethought. We want to make sure that we can, one, know what our demographic is as far as our workforce, but secondly, when you transition into the company, we want to make sure we can support you and enable you to grow and foster that development.
With that, we have a Military Spouse Network as well that's singly focused on military spouses obviously, but we advocate there for remote work, we will look also for those permanent change of stations opportunities where you have to still move around because your spouse in the military, we make sure that we also enable you to be supported in that capacity. If you're relocating from say, the West Coast to the East Coast or vice versa, what can we do to make sure that you don't lose this opportunity, that you can maintain this opportunity? Very big advocates for that.
Then also, most companies only focus on the veteran. We focus on both, the whole package, 'cause it is the whole package. I think that Military Spouse Network is just a crucial part of that.
Last, and a big thing they do as well is a, what I'll call a mentorship circle or a buddy program where once you transition and you join the firm as a teammate, you can join these mentorship circles or buddy programs to make sure that once again, your transition is smooth and seamless as you integrate into the organization and become one of our teammates.
Jennie Brooks:
I think, having spoken with a number of people coming from all different places, a lot of people get intimidated by the idea of a disjointed resume with gaps in their experience base or movement because they have had to physically move, so they've had to go from one employer to the next. We really want to have a conversation around the benefits of a disjointed experience base and also how to close the gap together, whether it's experiential training or formal certifications and education, or some combination thereof. I would imagine that's part of the conversation that we have with military constituents as well.
Tom Downs:
Correct. Yeah. For the spouses that is often a thing that they're hesitant. I agree with you and as we do as an organization that that makes you a more well-rounded person and professional. We're not based off of you had to be a company A or B for X number of years or you're a job hopper or what have you. That's the norm anymore. People are jumping around from jobs every two to three years is kind of norm in our professional association nowadays. In the war for talent, that's not an issue anymore.
Jennie Brooks:
Yeah.
Tom Downs:
It's not. But that, once again, I think makes you more well-rounded. We're looking at skills, traits, and abilities, not because you were at a company for 15 years or only there for six months or what have you. I think that's part of the conversation that gives you more of a differentiated experience, experiences, to bring forward to us, to make us even better and more impactful as an organization.
I think if the question does come up about during the interview process like, "Hey, I see that you've had a couple different opportunities that you've been at recently," just be forthright and transparent. "Some of these things are out of my control. I had to support my spouse and we relocated from East Coast to West Coast with company A or B, and unfortunately they did not have an opportunity for me there to fall into. I had to make a decision," and so we talk through that and we also make sure that, once again, you cross that finish line. You're here, we're here for the long haul, as long as you want to be a part of our team, we're going to support you.
Jennie Brooks:
Tom, at the end of every podcast, we leave some free space for our guests to leave final words with our audience. What would you like to leave us with today?
Tom Downs:
Oh geez. I think just echoing again, start now, start early. As you're transitioning out or thinking about transitioning out, you can always have those conversations. Get names and numbers and email addresses as you're at these different job fairs and these networking events so you can what I call your professional spider web starts getting created and you can maintain that and sustain that for when you are indeed make that final decision to move on to your next opportunity and to get out of the military. That goes for spouses as well. I think holistically, be it spouse, caregiver, or non, we're here to do it all. We want to make sure that we're bringing the best and brightest forward to join our team and just a huge piece of that is of course, the military community, but we also make sure that for our diversity and inclusion initiatives, that is a big pillar piece of it is of course this demographic, but also we want to make sure that we're being inclusive with everything that we do.
We have a huge outreach and engagement effort for huge segments of our diversity strategy, but we also make sure we're inclusive with the words that we use in our job descriptions to make sure that we're not inadvertently getting someone to self eliminate by saying different things and words in a job description, and we're making sure we're getting better there. But then also, once again, we're not based on years of experience. We want to know what are your skills, traits, and abilities? What can you bring to the organization to make us better? Just keep that in mind as you're shaping your resume and click and apply for those jobs and just having conversations and pointing to the finish line so we can get you there sooner and faster.
Jennie Brooks:
Thanks, Tom. Great speaking with you. I would love to talk with you again.
Tom Downs:
Sounds good. Thank you, Jennie.
Jennie Brooks:
Thanks for listening. Visit careers.boozallen.com to learn how you can be unstoppable with Booz Allen. Be the future. Work with us. The world can't wait.