Host Jennie Brooks talks to Dominique Chamely, an organizational transformation consultant in Booz Allen's health account and co-chair of GLOBE+, the firm's LGBTQ+ business resource group. In this episode, Dominique discusses how to be an activist within the walls of a corporation. Tune in for stories about practical ways to take an activist lens to the work you do every day and how to identify your activist ethos.
00:00:01 Jennie Brooks
Welcome to Booz Allen Hamilton, Unstoppable Together Podcast, a series of stories that unite US and empower each of us to change the world. I’m Jennie Brooks with Booz Allen Hamilton and I'm passionate about diversity, equity and inclusion. Please join me in conversation with the diverse group of thought leaders to explore what makes them and all of us unstoppable.
00:00:27 Jennie Brooks
Hello everyone and welcome to the Unstoppable Together podcast. I'm Jennie Brooks and I'm excited today to be joined by Dominique Chamely an Associate with Booz Allen’s Health account. Dominique also serves as the volunteerism committee chair and recruiting committee co-chair for the GLOBE+ business resource group. And before joining the firm she was a policy advisor for the federal government as well as two national nonprofits, Dominique welcome to the podcast.
00:00:56 Dominque Chamely
Thank you, thank you for having me.
00:00:59 Jennie Brooks
We're thrilled to have you with us today. First and foremost, I think you consider yourself an activist right. To start, Dominique, can you tell us how do you define activism? What does an activist do?
00:01:13 Dominque Chamely
Well, I will say that an activist is a person who is activating something, and to me I'm seeking justice everywhere. I think that that's the conversation around activism that I want to bring to the table it's we seek justice everywhere and we activate a world that can cause that.
00:01:34 Jennie Brooks
So let's talk about how do you see your role in seeking justice everywhere? And also, how does that translate into today's corporate world?
00:01:46 Dominque Chamely
I think in light of what's been recently going on, not that it's new, but just that the visibility of it is the social justice conversation evolves along with society. And so I think the most powerful thing anyone can do to participate in their own version of activism or a society that they want to be living in is first, to do some introspection, you got to know who you are, where you come from and like what it means to you. What are the values that are driving? Where's your compass and who wired it? And what that means for me is that I'm Syrian, Lebanese by blood but I was born in Trinidad and I grew up in South Florida. So my point of view for the world comes from all of those places at once I'm also a queer woman. I was raised Catholic and have had a variety of different experiences in my lifetime that have exposed me to different populations and different conversations around culture. And one thing I really want to drive home here. Is culture is this collection of agreements that we make. To each other and with each other about how. We want things to work knowing where I am and how my culture wired me helps me understand how to interact with the world, because those are my original agreements about how the world works. And if I can't have some level of mastery around knowing, hey, that's what I'm coming to the conversation with, and that may not be true of everybody that I'm talking to.
00:03:19 Dominque Chamely
Then I'm not really going to be able to have a clear conversation about justice. I'm not going to be able to have a clear conversation around activism and sometimes what you have to do is you have to update. How your compass functions in this society?
And what do I mean by that? OK, well I'm going to seek justice everywhere. It means sometimes I'm going to be direct and not out of a desire to be critical, but I would desire to say we can do better and we will. And sometimes what it's going to mean is that I'm just going to be really grateful that you gave me the opportunity like I'm so happy to be in a room sometimes because I have an opportunity to make a difference from what I can see and so.
00:04:08 Dominque Chamely
Introspection empowers that capacity for me to be able to see what is going on in this situation. That has nothing to do with me. What are the agreements that are occurring in a conversation with my colleagues or my peers or my client? What's the cultural norm here about? Conflict, for instance, right, and so you're looking through that lens and you're saying you know what? There isn't a value on direct communication so. How do I foster? Justice in that space.
00:04:42 Dominque Chamely
Well, you plant a lot of little seeds and you spend a lot of time cultivating it, right? The approach to being an activist anywhere is about knowing yourself everywhere. Knowing yourself in each new situation, and understanding how you bring. The gifts that. You were given the narratives that you hold. None of us popped out of thin air.
00:05:03 Dominque Chamely
We all have families. We come from historical legacies we come from and we are carrying with us the journeys of our ancestors. And so my updated compass in this work world is OK if I'm seeking justice everywhere and I'm coming from all of these backgrounds, then the one thing I can look and see and define newly in every moment. OK, well to me justice is going to look like everybody thriving. So let me understand the people around me. And let's find those commonalities that we can start to cultivate together. And I know that sounds a little conceptual, but it becomes very straightforward when you're just being with somebody. If you listen to them people. Will tell you. A lot about themselves.
00:05:47 Dominque Chamely
About how they believe the world works and actually want a cause for the world deep down. But you know, when I was working in federal social justice policy advocacy work, that meant help them be organized. We have powerful people ready to relay messages to the government on behalf of marginalized populations, and their breakdown comes from not having efficient meetings. OK, in order for them to do their work, I just became a really effective facilitator and I had to start to set the boundaries around. How is that going to go when this conversation can end? Are ou allowed to dig at that person, no. We're being constructive here. And so, to me, being an activist everywhere means. Be grateful for every opportunity you have. Continue to seek justice even.
00:06:40 Dominque Chamely
If you're doing a good job. And bring others along with you because everybody has something bigger that they actually care about. But they're too afraid to name most of the time. I never saw myself working for a corporation and I got a ton of flak from my community when I first got here like.
00:07:00 Jennie Brooks
Is that right?
00:07:01 Dominque Chamely
Yeah you know people who don't understand that the work occurs on all fronts. Sometimes you have to go somewhere nontraditional to continue doing the work, expand the scope and expand the impact.
00:07:16 Jennie Brooks
So now that you've navigated the naysayers, what are some of the things that you would offer to folks who want to spark activism within a corporation? What are some of the things that you've done or that you'd recommend people consider?
00:07:30 Dominque Chamely
So the first thing I would say is pay attention to the people around you and be kind. The pandemic is its own can of worms, but the conversation around social justice has been so long ignored that people are already exhausted. So as this might be the first time you're exploring something, make sure you ask before you start to talk to somebody about their experience. Make sure you just say, hey. Listen, I was just wondering if maybe we could talk about this kind of candidly sometime. And if you miss it, own it. Own your mistakes.
00:08:05 Dominque Chamely
Grow and don't do it again. It happens, so that's the first thing is. Pay attention to the people around you. None of us got into this world alone and those are getting out alone and we actually have to rely on each other or all we've got. Make your team a place you want to be and keep bringing new agreements until it gets there. Two, remember that no one else is coming.
They're not going to come in and do it better than you. You're the one in the room, so set aside the impostor syndrome and choose to make a difference. Take the time to pay enough attention to deliver the result that was really needed, and that means it's hard. But sometimes you want to be able to say listen like you aren't even getting the value that the people you've already got here bring.
00:08:52 Dominque Chamely
And that's a huge huge missing, not just for your bottom line, but for the fact that. There's no innovation available and without that sense of psychological safety. Your people aren't actually going to communicate the truth to you, so be prepared for that. Like either there's going to be a cultural shift or you get to keep this norm as it is, but just know that that's a choice. So one is be kind to the people around you. Two is be willing to name what's going on that's not working, and then the third thing. Be willing to grow. We're all going to make mistakes in this conversation, myself included.
00:09:30 Dominque Chamely
Some of my sensitivity around D&I comes from having been the outsider. Some of it comes from having had privilege that nobody checked me on. Be grateful when someone checking you on your privilege. It means that they think you can grow. They care enough to invest in you to have that conversation. I guarantee you there are people that they would prefer to be spending time with and talking to who already show them dignity and respect. And if they're taking the time to have a conversation with you about an impact that's occurring, or something that's not working, they're talking to you from what's really going on for them.
00:10:07 Dominque Chamely
Be kind, listen and be willing to grow. There's nothing so powerful to me as somebody who says. You know what? I was wrong.
And I really didn't mean to create that outcome. But I'm going to take inventory of why it happened. And really take action so that it doesn’t happen again. 'cause an apology can only go so far, right? It tells me that you're willing. And then when I don't see a change well. Then you and I had a different agreement about what an apology is.
00:10:40 Jennie Brooks
What was your process? To really hone in on understanding that that was your ethos. So your sense of activism. Was to seek justice everywhere.
00:10:51 Dominque Chamely
So to me I just sat and thought like what's the core motivation, right? Like what's the commitment? Cause there's always a commitment. Anything anybody ever says to you somewhere deep down, there's something they're committed to that has them saying that to you and to me I just like to name those commitments sometimes.
00:11:08 Jennie Brooks
I love that because I think we can invite one another to your point, to share the unspoken. The kind of commitments that we have, and in doing that we can better understand. Where we're coming from and where we want to go as a collective.
00:11:24 Dominque Chamely
Yeah, and I think that part of that is also being responsible for creating the safety to have that conversation, or to invite people to it right? And so I think part of what that looks like is. You got to get really related to what our human needs and what are your needs and how are those different. Making room for people to have the needs they have have the concerns they have have the commitments that they have. There's no perfect end state, but there is room to have conversations go well when you make room for other people to just share what's theirs.
00:12:02 Dominque Chamely
You know, perhaps my favorite quote of all time is by Audre Lorde, and it goes caring for myself is not self indulgence. It's self preservation and that that is an act of political warfare and this one, I think is so salient right now, because what we've seen is that we live in a society that has had a long standing agreement that certain lives are disposable. And so to care for the self to care for. Our very being. Like that is a political conversation. It's to say that I will not be broken by any of these institutions or any of these challenges that were not built for me and to stay in a game that is difficult. Which is pretty much the whole world right now.
00:12:58 Dominque Chamely
Requires self care. Self care is the most important thing you could possibly do when you're going to engage with any other human being, ever and just in general, I recommend it.
00:13:09 Jennie Brooks
We recommend self care, particularly these days. Self care is high on our list of recommendations.
00:13:17 Dominque Chamely
How do I recommend it first of all? What's your inventory of things that have you know that you are well? I go down this little list with myself sometimes 'cause I don't listen. I'm passionate, I'm driven, I'll just I'll put myself into the work until it's done. Sometimes I'll forget to eat, not awesome. Don't do that. I don't recommend it, but what I'll do sometimes is I'll schedule breaks in my day. Where I just look at a checklist for myself. Nutrition hydration energy level emotional level and a couple of other criteria. You know, just taking inventory of the things that matter to you that you know have your internal compass working. Because you're the one who has to guide yourself through everything that comes up in your day. And if your internal compass is a little crickety because you didn't eat that morning and. You're not going to be delivering, you're not. You're not you, right? And so.
00:14:13 Dominque Chamely
You are what you do consistently, so some of these habits just require consistency. To set you up for a self care that endures. And so that's what I would say is, develop a routine that works for you. For me it looks like journaling in the mornings, going for a walk in the mornings taking that inventory. Somewhere around like. 11 or 12. And then again at three. And then to the extent possible screen breaks. I'll ask sometimes if folks want to just take a phone. All but being willing to just like ask for what you need and without chain like there's this whole culture of shame for having needs.
00:14:55 Dominque Chamely
It's like I I get it like I work really hard. I definitely sometimes have let myself care slip and that's part of the reason that I'm coming from this point of view right now. Especially now, especially with the layers of emotional incoming every single day like I have to limit the amount of TV I watch specifically the news, especially, I'm like that's not easy in this day and age, but the only way forard is to keep bringing the conversation I want to be in. Not the conversation that I dread or fear. It's like OK so. This just happened. What am I doing about it? Who am I engaged with? And yeah, it can be overwhelming to think that every single day.
00:15:39 Dominque Chamely
So you choose, you choose where. You focus that time and energy. And you give it what you've got to give. And then you keep moving.
00:15:46 Jennie Brooks
Keep moving, absolutely! Dominique at the end of every podcast we need free space for our guests to share some final words with our audience. What would you offer to them today?
00:15:59 Dominque Chamely
I think what I would say is this. If you're not sure where to start with understanding what some of your core drivers are, first of all, I highly recommend buying a journal and just writing until something. You like pops out. Or every so often just try and jot down what thoughts are coming to mind. But look back through your employment history, look back through your life. Pick out their moments that you can remember most vividly that you're most proud of. The things you learned that you just think are so cool and think about. What the pattern is between them?
00:16:36 Dominque Chamely
To me I look back on my life. One of my favorite first jobs was working as an art therapist for court involved 11 to 18 year old girls in Inner City Boston. It was such an intense job, I wasn't much older than them at the time, and it was too much for me. But what I saw is that day in and day out. I could have a moment with them that would make a difference. But they were going back into a foster system that didn't work. And so I was like, OK. Let's go look at the systems. And so I kept following this little rabbit hole.
00:17:13 Dominque Chamely
So I went from behavioral neuroscience and a commitment to become a clinical therapist to wanting to take on systems and institutions professionally, and I kept the problem with me until I found my way into policy work. And really start to think about OK, how do we use policy to influence systems? And I just picked up things that I needed to understand what was going on in the world and how to make a difference. Because I figured, here's the thing. If people are making the best choices they can inside of the systems that they're in. Then we got to do a better job of setting up the systems so that they have choices they want to be making right? And that's not some savior complex.
00:18:01 Dominque Chamely
It's that somebody made it up. And they missed something that matters. OK, I can deal with that and go right, and so that's the thing is, sometimes that's the opportunity to create justice just to bring it full circle there. That's what the opportunity looks like. Sometimes you have to be willing to trust your gut and you have to be willing to speak from what you see because nobody sees it the way that you do. And if they do. If you're in an echo chamber. Please pick up some variety in what's going on in your life. Read a new book. Watch a new show. Try on a style of music you've never listened to. Just diversify your experiences because every single time there will be something in it for you to enrich yourself and your understanding of how the world works outside of you.
00:19:01 Jennie Brooks
And I think that's so on point, because when you look at what's happening in our world today, and we recognize that systemic racism has been part of the fabric of our community in so many ways that today at least I can speak for my own journey. I am looking across to literature to help guide me and better understand to see it. with a different lens or with different eyes. To immerse myself to better understand something that I may not have been exposed to before in the systems, as you say.
00:19:40 Dominque Chamely
Oh yeah.
00:19:40 Jennie Brooks
Let me better learn about what's been happening in various institutions or organizations across our community as part of my own process and help that guide you know where I ultimately participate, yes.
00:19:55 Dominque Chamely
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that I would even put in there is like never before. Have we had this many people paying attention or able to pay attention to what is going on around them, especially as it relates to social justice and I think that's why we're seeing an increased number of people who are recognizing themselves as having a voice and wanting to contribute that to the conversation and so. You got to just pay attention and take the lessons where they come and every opportunity, every challenge, everything you go through. You're going to be able to find a lesson. Just be willing to look beyond what you think you know.
Listen to the advice of the people around you who are seeing the situation from a different perspective than you. Take a step back and say OK, where is it? My work to grow?
00:20:54 Jennie Brooks
Thank you, thank you for your time and for sharing. I’m just so grateful.
00:20:58 Dominque Chamely
Thank you so much Jennie.
00:21:01 Jennie Brooks
Thanks for listening. Visit careers.BoozAllen.com to learn how you can be unstoppable with Booz Allen. Be the future. Work with us. The world can't wait.