Jennie Brooks, host of the Unstoppable Together podcast, talks with Booz Allen Chief Legal Officer, Nancy Laben. In this episode they discuss the rising violence and xenophobia against the Jewish community, how she’s navigating, moments of joy, and ways for companies to further support their Jewish employees.
Jennie Brooks:
Welcome to Booz Allen Hamilton's Unstoppable Together podcast, a series of stories that unite us and empower each of us to change the world. I'm Jennie Brooks with Booz Allen Hamilton, and I'm passionate about diversity, equity and inclusion. Please join me in conversation with a diverse group of thought leaders to explore what makes them and all of us unstoppable. Hello everyone and welcome to the Unstoppable Together podcast, I'm your host Jennie Brooks. And today, I'm honored to be joined by Nancy Laben, executive vice president and chief legal officer at Booz Allen. Nancy is also on the board of the Booz Allen Foundation. Nancy, welcome to the podcast.
Nancy Laben:
Thank you, Jennie, great to be here.
Jennie Brooks:
We're so honored to speak with you, thank you for taking the time. Nancy, within Booz Allen, you're a well known advocate for our Jewish employees. You make sure that we are aware of and recognize Jewish holidays. You provide support as we've seen an increase in the number of antisemitism and antisemitic incidents in the United States. And we're here today unfortunately because not only in the last few months but also in the past few years there's been a distinct rise in these attacks. Most recently in the United States in Texas, we witnessed the hostage situation at that congregation Beth Israel Reform Jewish Synagogue. And I guess my first question for you is simply how are you doing? How are you processing these events taking place across our country?
Nancy Laben:
Jennie, thank you very much for asking, and I really mean that. Several people reached out to me after the Colleyville incident to check in, and I could not have been more appreciative. And in fact, I've tried to take a lesson from that and reach out to others when there are other tragic or concerning incidents. It really makes a difference to have somebody ask you about that. And honestly, it's been hard to process these incidents. Obviously, the physical attacks that put people in harm's way are horrific, and you fear for the individual's health and safety. And then you wonder, could this happen to me or to my family or to my friends? And that kind of worry is relatively new for an American Jew given the uptick in physical attacks.
When I was very young living in Massachusetts, we had a swastika burned on our lawn in gasoline. And I did not completely understand at the time what would drive someone to do that. But over the years, I became less afraid as the incidents of that type of thing lessened. And unfortunately now, that visceral fear has really returned due to uptick in incidents. And it's also been very strange honestly to see the increasing trolling of Jews in social media and the attacks on our otherness. And frankly, just a lack of understanding. I mean, you might recall the incident with Whoopi Goldberg when she said that the Holocaust wasn't about race. Now, she's since apologized and she's educated herself. And for that, I'm very grateful. But her initial comment really illustrated the lack of understanding or confusion that many people have about antisemitism.
They don't know how to define Jews. So they try to find some way that's familiar. Are Jews a race? Is it a religion? Is it a culture? But antisemitism is one of the oldest types of discriminatory behavior. It started so long ago, and it predates generally recognized categories. And as Yair Rosenberg points out, he's a well-known journalist, writes for The Atlantic, a very good column. He is the number two most attacked Jew on social media. But as he points out, it's not really a religious thing because you can be Jewish without being observant. It's not quite a race because people can convert in, and it's not a culture because that removes the religious aspect. And it's also not a nationality because although there is a homeland in Israel, not everyone identifies with being there or thinks of it as their homeland. And in fact, it was only relatively recently that Jews from Eastern Europe were even considered white. And it's also been within the last four years that the alt-right has been pushing back on that and really trying to uptick the amount of antisemitism.
Jennie Brooks:
Wow. So you describe a swastika being burned on your lawn early on, early childhood although relatively feeling safe throughout your childhood. Is there conversation in your family around discrimination as you were growing up or, no, is it relatively now recently with these resurgence of these events and attacks that this has become more of an acute issue in your family, in your network, in your community?
Nancy Laben:
At the time, I was eight, seven. I mean, I wasn't really old enough to understand what it meant and why my parents were so upset and so concerned. And it's only now looking back that I can see my parents' involvement in our synagogue. They were one of the founding members of it. How they viewed it as adults being personally attacked, honestly, I didn't understand it enough. I mean, I went to Hebrew school and I learned Hebrew, and I was brought up in the religion. And so I knew it wasn't good, but I didn't have that connectivity, which is very different actually from my husband who's first generation American. His father left Austria three days after Kristallnacht, three days after the rampant destruction there.
And as I grew up, and I grew up overseas a lot, there was a lot more security. Israel had come into being, and we saw less antisemitism overtly. But within the last five years or so, there's much more conversation in the community about the increase and the risk, the personal risk and the mental health risk. I mean, seeing the folks in Charlottesville marching with tiki torches saying Jews will not replace us and then having that same phrase repeated on cable news. And what the intent is, that's scary, that really does scare one.
Jennie Brooks:
These statistics are beyond frightening. Jews comprise less than 3% of the American population, but the majority of reported religious based hate crimes target Jewish people. According to the FBI's annual data on hate crimes, crimes targeting the Jewish community consistently constitute over half of all religion based crimes. There were over 600 hate crimes against Jews reported in 2020. And also in 2020, the Anti-Defamation League tabulate over 2,000 reported antisemitic incidents throughout our country. That's the third highest year since they started tracking these incidents beginning in the late 1970s. So many of these incidents are targeting our Jewish institutions. How has that influenced the way you practice your faith? How have you come to view what should be a place of refuge and solace but which is now sort of seen potentially as a place that requires increased security? The media showing these security trainings for staff and people going to your place of worship.
Nancy Laben:
So on the one hand, it's made me more defiant, which probably fits with my personality. And if you work with me or if you see me regularly, you'll notice that I almost always wear a necklace that looks like a gold square. Most people don't recognize it because it just looks like a gold square. But it's a chai, it's the Hebrew letter that means life. And in the past, I was afraid to wear anything that could identify me as Jewish. And now not only do I wear it, but I wear it when I travel internationally. Which is a big step for me because if you recall the stories of the hijacking, they used things like that to identify Jews and to identify people that they wanted to target. And I shared this story once with a Catholic friend who always wears a cross, it's a beautiful cross. And she couldn't believe that I actually put so much thought into do I wear a necklace or do I not wear a necklace?
And on that front, it's a bit exhausting to have to think about how you portray yourself and what your physical appearance is. And with respect to going to services, my friends and I refer to all the security in our places of worship as the Jewish tax. On Saturday mornings when I go to services, I encounter a huge variety, vast amount of different security measures depending on where I am and which synagogue I'm going to.
First before I leave the house, I have to remember to grab some form of ID with me in case I'll be asked for it to enter the synagogue. I need to think about how I'm going to get to the synagogue because some places no longer have parking due to security restrictions. I walk past the police car that sits in the front. And then when I get to the door, I'd line up to go through security much like the security you'd find at a concert. And it would either be with on duty or off duty police, again, depending on the location. And it's only then that I'm on the premises and can start to get into a contemplative mode, which was the whole purpose of me going to the beginning. And as I said, this is very expensive.
Jennie Brooks:
Wow. Yeah, certainly. On this podcast, we talk about both difficult things and we also try and feature moments of joy so that we can show it's not either or but it's a conversation around both and. Can you share with us a special memory you hold about your faith?
Nancy Laben:
So I really appreciate that you do both sides of it because that is hugely important. My faith is extremely important to both me and to my family, and it always has been. I was the first girl to be bat mitzvahed in Japan. And at that time I was not allowed to read from the Torah, our Bible because girls were just not allowed to do that at the synagogue. I now don't belong to a synagogue that wouldn't allow that. But later on when my daughter and son were bar and bat mitzvahed, I was so proud to stand next to them as they both read the guidance and wisdom that's been handed down for more than 5,000 years in our religion. Also, not only am I proud of those traditions, but as I mentioned, my husband's the child of a Holocaust survivor. I am proud that we as a people have been able to survive the insanity of an attempted genocide.
Before World War II, there were about 16 million Jews in the world, and now there are only 15.2 million or so. We're almost just back to where we were pre World War II levels. And because of that or in addition to that, it's horrific to me to see what's going on in the Ukraine, which is where my family's from, my family's from Kiev. And to see the Russians say or claim that they're denazifying a country that's led by a Jewish president where the prime minister is Jewish and where the mayor of Kiev is Jewish, it's incredible. And it really does re-institute my defiance, if you will.
Oh, and the other thing I would just say again in keeping with the positive, this summer my daughter will be married in Italy to an Italian man, and I'm having an amazing blast combining our Eastern European Jewish traditions with the Jewish traditions from Rome. And the two, they vary widely. And I'm learning a whole lot about things that I did not know. And I love all the history that Jews have that we continue to grow and evolve and come together as a community.
Jennie Brooks:
Well, we stand with you, and we certainly stand with the people of Ukraine. I pray for them and their safety every single night. My Catholic prayers and my rosary beads are joining you and standing with the people of Ukraine.
Nancy Laben:
All prayers, all prayers I think they deserve.
Jennie Brooks:
Absolutely. What can companies do to show their zero tolerance for antisemitism? How does a faith such as Judaism or Catholicism fit into a company's DE&I work?
Nancy Laben:
I think it fits right in there, right in the middle. And the first thing that you have to do whether it's with regard to Judaism or any other aspects of dE&I is education. You have to educate people about what antisemitism is and the impact of it. You need to speak up unequivocally in support of Jewish employees and against antisemitism. And you can substitute in any word you want for antisemitism in that. It's about the education. And it was shocking to me, for example, recently when Tennessee decided to ban the book Maus. Maus is a comic book portrayal of the Holocaust. And I understand they were concerned about how their children would view what was pretty gory scenes, there were one or two. I get that. But they didn't replace it with anything educational. And if you don't teach the Holocaust, if you don't teach about antisemitism, we are doomed to repeat it.
The other thing I would want Booz Allen to do, and I think they do a pretty decent job, always can do better, but I think they do well is take it seriously. I've heard from others that, oh, it's not really discrimination or racism. Or I've also heard, oh, you're white. And I am white, and I do have white privilege. But I am also impacted by antisemitism, it's real. And we need to make sure we don't ignore it. I was recently speaking with someone who told me a story that they were asked to attend a team wide meeting that was scheduled for Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur is the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. And when that individual spoke up to her manager and said, "Look, this is problematic, I can't attend," they were essentially told, "well, that's unfortunate, but I can't change the date."
And in my mind, would you ever hold a meeting on Christmas? No, you never would. I don't ascribe bad intent, mal intent to the manager, it's just a lack of understanding. The other thing I would highlight is having a resource group or a network. And so that's what I hope this podcast kicks off. I'm going to be working with people services to set something up for anyone who would like to participate, Jewish or not Jewish. And so please, please reach out to me if you hear this and you would like to be involved. And share that and get others involved as well. I think the opportunity to get together and educate and talk about and support each other and share is something I really want to do.
Jennie Brooks:
Nancy, you're such a role model and inspiration to so many of us. And we appreciate your spirit of defiance. A little or a lot of defiance in the right moments is a good thing, so we thank you for your leadership. And at the end of every podcast, we give our guests some free space to share their final thoughts with those listening. What would you like to leave our audience with today?
Nancy Laben:
Well, first off, thank you very much for having me, this is an amazing opportunity, and I love talking to you. And I've listened to all of your podcasts, they're incredible, so thank you for that. What I would leave folks with is a request for kindness and grace not only in the context of antisemitism or discrimination or DE&I, we've all been through a lot in the last, gosh, it feels like 50 years, I can't believe it's just been two. And I think everyone's tired, everyone's trying to rethink their life. And a little kindness goes a long way, a little common reach out. As I mentioned at the beginning, ask how people are doing. And a little grace when they're just not hitting the bar because it's not for lack of desire, it's probably for lack of sleep. And I think we'll get there. So kindness and grace.
Jennie Brooks:
You never know what someone's working through, kindness and grace will get us through. Thank you so much Nancy.
Nancy Laben:
Thank you, pleasure to be with you.
Jennie Brooks:
Thanks for listening. Visit careers.boozallen.com to learn how you can be unstoppable with Booz Allen. Be the future, work with us, the world can't wait.